Ok,, I, don't, know, if, I'm, having, a, blonde, moment, or, what., I, U'dTFSE,, I, Googled,, I, searched, the, vaults, of, , Erowid,and, I, still, don't, get, it., I've, used, Kava, and, been, less, than, impressed, with, the, results., It, seems, people, arelooking, for, about, 500-1000mg, kavalactones., Throat, suggests, adding, a, shot, of, alcohol, to, potentiate., So, far,, , I'mfollowing.So, I, calculate, what, I've, been, doing, wrong., I, had, been, using, 2, TBS, Kava, root, powder, from, either, Kava, King, orKava, Kaui, Awa, blend, mixed, with, 1, tsp, granular, lecithin, to, emulsify, and, potentiate., I, would, cover, in, Gatorade, , orOJ, and, shake, vigorously, then, drink, the, whole, mixture., My, effects, were, very, mild, with, a, crashing, effect, , shortlyafterward, and, I, would, start, puking, if, I, redosed, too, many, times., But, my, calculations,, 2TBS, equals, about55000mgs!, Now, neither, Kava, Kauai, nor, Kava, King, lists, the, percent, of, active, Kava, lactones,, but, I'm, sure, it'smuch, more, than, 3.6%, (which, would, equal, 1000mg, KL, assuming, 50%, bioavailability, from, shaking, method)., I, feel, , thatI, must, be, doing, many, times, the, recommended, dosage,, and, yet, still, only, getting, mild, effects?What, am, I, missing?, I'm, not, expecting, to, be, tripping, my, tits, off,, but, some, people, have, made, very, positive, , posts.Do, I, just, need, to, add, alcohol?, Is, there, some, other, substance, that, should, be, used, to, potentiate?, Do, I, need, toswitch, to, Vanatua, strain?, Am, I, doing, too, *much*?, Do, my, sources, just, suck?, I, mean,, am, I, possibly, getting, lessthan, 3.6%, KL?, Is, my, math, off, somewhere?, Someone, suggested, http://www.ethnobotanicals.com/Kava-kava.html, wherethey, have, an, 84%, available, paste, would, that, work, better?, 2, TBS, of, this, stuff, would, quickly, kill, my, bankaccount!, What, about, the, liquid, extracts?, I, would, seriously, love, to, be, able, to, take, a, little, bottle, to, work, , and"Kava, up", with, a, few, drops., I, don't, have, space, at, work, or, at, home, to, keep, a, blender, full, of, Kava, smoothie, inthe, fridge.Help, me, out, someone, who, knows., Am, I, doing, something, wrong,, or, is, Kava, just, not, for, me?, Thanks!!XXOO,G, Wiz Ecce, sponsa, Satanus,, Gina., Domino, Inferi, in, medio, ejus est., Fluminis, impetus, salsa, laetificat, vivos, et, mortuos. Domine, Gina,torrente, voluptatis, Tuae, potabuis, eos. Quoniam, apud, te, fons, vitae;, et, in, lumine, tuo, videbimus lumen., Qui, stitit,, veniat;, et, qui, vult,, accipiat, aquam salsa., Ego, vos, benedictio, in, nomine, Gina.AVE, SATANUS!, AVE, PARAPHILIA!, AVE, NECROPHAGIA!, AVE, ENTHEOGENS!">
Question from Kava dummy
Marcilla_Blutgrafin Ok, I don't know if I'm having a blonde moment or what. I U'dTFSE, I Googled, I searched the vaults of Erowid, and I still don't get it. I've used Kava and been less than impressed with the results. It seems people are looking for about 500-1000mg kavalactones. Throat suggests adding a shot of alcohol to potentiate. So far, I'm following. So I calculate what I've been doing wrong. I had been using 2 TBS Kava root powder from either Kava King or Kava Kaui Awa blend mixed with 1 tsp granular lecithin to emulsify and potentiate. I would cover in Gatorade or OJ and shake vigorously then drink the whole mixture. My effects were very mild with a crashing effect shortly afterward and I would start puking if I redosed too many times. But my calculations, 2TBS equals about 55000mgs! Now neither Kava Kauai nor Kava King lists the percent of active Kava lactones, but I'm sure it's much more than 3.6% (which would equal 1000mg KL assuming 50% bioavailability from shaking method). I feel that I must be doing many times the recommended dosage, and yet still only getting mild effects? What am I missing? I'm not expecting to be tripping my tits off, but some people have made very positive posts. Do I just need to add alcohol? Is there some other substance that should be used to potentiate? Do I need to switch to Vanatua strain? Am I doing too *much*? Do my sources just suck? I mean, am I possibly getting less than 3.6% KL? Is my math off somewhere? Someone suggested http://www.ethnobotanicals.com/Kava-kava.html where they have an 84% available paste would that work better? 2 TBS of this stuff would quickly kill my bank account! What about the liquid extracts? I would seriously love to be able to take a little bottle to work and "Kava up" with a few drops. I don't have space at work or at home to keep a blender full of Kava smoothie in the fridge. Help me out someone who knows. Am I doing something wrong, or is Kava just not for me? Thanks!! XXOO, G Wiz Ecce sponsa Satanus, Gina. Domino Inferi in medio ejus est. Fluminis impetus salsa laetificat vivos et mortuos. Domine Gina,torrente voluptatis Tuae potabuis eos. Quoniam apud te fons vitae; et in lumine tuo videbimus lumen. Qui stitit, veniat; et qui vult, accipiat aquam salsa. Ego vos benedictio in nomine Gina. AVE SATANUS! AVE PARAPHILIA! AVE NECROPHAGIA! AVE ENTHEOGENS!
muskie
quote:
Originally posted by Marcilla_Blutgrafin
Ok, I don't know if I'm having a blonde moment or what. I U'dTFSE, I Googled, I searched the vaults of Erowid,
Erowid is, hmmm... how shall I put this more diplomatically than to suggest that Erowid has it's head up one of it's orifices? Perhaps by putting on my most diplomatic face, and saying: "The information about kava on Erowid is mostly inaccurate"... and leaving off the continuation: "and my kava-drinking friends and I sometimes read it for laughs." Seriously-- look for information about kava from the traditional kava-using cultures. The information about kava on Erowid is little better than guesswork.
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and I still don't get it. I've used Kava and been less than impressed with the results. It seems people are looking for about 500-1000mg kavalactones.
More, actually. It's not unusual to put down 2-3 grams of kavalactones in a sitting. And I'd hate to think of what the dosage added up to in one of my moments of indiscretion [:D] What I want to call the drug crowd (as opposed to the kava-drinking crowd) has a very poor idea of what an effective kava dosage is. Usually, they underestimate the dosage in kavalactones. But, worse, they don't understand that it isn't just the amount of kavalactones-- it's the balance of kavalactones that determines the effects.
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Throat suggests adding a shot of alcohol to potentiate. So far, I'm following.
I wouldn't. Traditional usage strongly discourages combining kava and alcohol, and unless it's a simple matter of progress (i.e., blenders versus mastication), I would pay very close attention to traditional usage. Even when traditional usage seems bizarre or primitive (for example, the taboo among many Melanesian tribes against women drinking kava), you'll usually find there's a reason for it (kava is an anaphrodesiac for men, yet has an aphrodesiac effect on women-- something that could be disruptive within a tribe). It's quite possible that failure to pay attention to traditional usage ("don't consume peelings and leaves") is ultimately what's behind the liver toxicity reports.
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So I calculate what I've been doing wrong. I had been using 2 TBS Kava root powder from either Kava King or Kava Kaui Awa blend mixed with 1 tsp granular lecithin to emulsify and potentiate.
Just stir Kava King into water or other fluid. It's micronized, and you don't have to prepare it like you do regular root. I don't know about the quality of Kava Kauai's Awa blend. I am familiar with their Palarasul, and I don't consider it a very good drinking kava by itself (not enough kavain, too much DHM), though a little of it added to some kava varieties, in my opinion, improves them. You might want to try getting ahold of specific Awa varieties, deciding what you like, and blending them yourself, if that's what you'd prefer. There are a few good sources (and some not so good sources) out there for specific Hawaiian varieties, but in my experience I get the very best quality awa from the sponsor of this forum, the Hawaiian Kava Center (and, no, nobody's paying me for this endorsement [:)] Though maybe I should add a note to my next order asking Jonathan for compensation for my endorsements [;)] )
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I would cover in Gatorade or OJ
In my experience, these are not good mediums for kavalactone extraction. Water is good. Hot water is very very good. Dairy milk is pretty good, too. Some people swear by coconut milk, but I find it too hard on my stomach. Soymilk isn't bad.
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and shake vigorously then drink the whole mixture.
Try using a blender. Blend for a long time-- I've found the longer the better, though obviously one has to consider the well-being of one's blender motor. Then strain out the fiber using something like a woman's nylon stocking or a paint strainer or one of the strainer bags specifically sold for kava preparation. Just shaking it, by hand, won't do much. If you have to prepare it by hand, use the traditional way: put the root in a filter bag of some sort (I use a women's nylon stocking), and knead it in the liquid for a while, as in at least ten minutes. By "knead" I mean really knead -- squeeze and rub and wring it out and really, really work the bag. A big problem many of the Erowid-types have is that they try to find a fast, easy way to prepare kava. Preparing good kava is neither fast, nor easy. It's real work. If it doesn't take you about as long to prepare kava as it would take you to prepare dinner, you're probably not going to get very good results.
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My effects were very mild
Probably a problem with dosage and preparation, and possibly a problem with the quality of the root
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with a crashing effect shortly afterward
That sounds to me like you've got an unpleasant balance of kavalactones in your finished product. This could be from preparation, or it could be from the quality of the root (for instance, as kava ages, the kavalactone balance changes, and the root may be old), or it could be that the variety or blend in question just isn't a very good drinking kava.
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and I would start puking if I redosed too many times.
If you've got a bad kavalactone balance, you might well have kava too high in DHM and DHK, both of which can cause nausea. But also, from your description, you're drinking kava with the fiber. The fiber doesn't absolutely have to be removed, and sometimes I don't remove it. But if you don't remove it, you increase your chances of an upset stomach, and I will almost guarantee you a bout of loose stools the next day.
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But my calculations, 2TBS equals about 55000mgs! Now neither Kava Kauai nor Kava King lists the percent of active Kava lactones, but I'm sure it's much more than 3.6% (which would equal 1000mg KL assuming 50% bioavailability from shaking method).
Your calculations are very off. I'm not well-versed in the exact numbers from the extraction studies (some people here are-- anyone want to chime in?), but you're probably getting about 300-500 mg, at best, from what you've been doing-- quite probably less. This would provide only mild effects. And, for your information, most varieties of kava are between 10-20% kavalactones, averaging around 15%, though nowhere near all of them will make their way into a kava beverage.
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I feel that I must be doing many times the recommended dosage, and yet still only getting mild effects?
You're not getting much of the active ingredient-- certainly not enough to produce anything more than mild effects. As to "recommended dosage", well, there really isn't one. Short of finding a way of packing your entire gastrointestinal system and maybe a few other body parts with kava root, you can't OD on it. If you drink too much in one sitting you will get nauseous from the DHM, and if you drink too much too often you'll get skin problems, and if you're absolutely hell-bent on long-term kava abuse you'll get apathy, blood disorders, and possibly some internal organ damage. But, otherwise, one drinks to get whatever effects one wants (and, hopefully, one has the sense not to want so much as to get in the way of living a good, healthy, life).
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What am I missing? I'm not expecting to be tripping my tits off
Hehehe... then you haven't tried one of my more wicked preparations [}:)] Seriously-- kava isn't in the same league with something like LSD, of course, but it's seriously underestimated by a lot of people. I take a great deal of mischevious delight in having been able to occasionally put a guest on the floor [:D] Not that I, uh, would have ever found myself in such a state as well, no, not me [;)]
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but some people have made very positive posts. Do I just need to add alcohol?
No. Don't.
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Is there some other substance that should be used to potentiate?
No, lecithin is the best choice I know of, though you could also add a little oil.
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Do I need to switch to Vanatua strain?
There are many varieties of kava grown in Vanuatu. My experience with the few I've had are that, frankly, most of them are not as good for drinking as Hawaiian awa. But you might find a Vanuatuan variety you like, so don't let me discourage you from experimenting. Switching to a Vanuatu variety, however, will not solve your problems.
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Am I doing too *much*?
Sounds to me like you're drinking too little.
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Do my sources just suck?
I don't know. They might.
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I mean, am I possibly getting less than 3.6% KL? Is my math off somewhere?
Yes, your math is off. But I must add that I don't know a lot of kava drinkers who use a calculator while drinking [:)] Calculating dosages is for pills; kava is for tipping the cup to your lips and enjoying, and using good sense to know when to stop.
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Someone suggested http://www.ethnobotanicals.com/Kava-kava.html where they have an 84% available paste would that work better? 2 TBS of this stuff would quickly kill my bank account!
Avoid it. The difference in effect between properly prepared root and kavalactone extracts is night and day. Once you figure out how to prepare and consume good kava, you'll much prefer kava root beverage. In any case, a dosage for that paste would most certainly not be two tablespoonfuls. That much would certainly get you sick, and very "wasted" in the worst sense of the word.
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What about the liquid extracts? I would seriously love to be able to take a little bottle to work and "Kava up" with a few drops. I don't have space at work or at home to keep a blender full of Kava smoothie in the fridge.
That's the one good use for those pills and tinctures-- they're portable and convenient for using kava for dealing with stress. The best portable kava I've found (as in "closest to the real thing") is Eclectic Institute's "Kava Nakamal".
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Help me out someone who knows. Am I doing something wrong, or is Kava just not for me?
It might not be for you. But I'm more likely to believe that you've got some combination of poor source material and bad preparation going. I'm also willing to lay bets that you're making the Number One Mistake the Erowid-types make. Are you drinking kava on an empty stomach? You must drink kava on an empty stomach. If you don't, you'll get poor effects or no effects, and you might get nauseous.
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AVE SATANUS! AVE PARAPHILIA! AVE NECROPHAGIA! AVE ENTHEOGENS!
I can't say much about Satanism, sexual fetishes, or the eating of the dead (other than to perhaps wonder why anyone would waste their time wallowing in such crap). I can certainly comment on kava as an entheogen (a drug that engenders spiritual awareness). Kava is the only substance I know of that can legitimately be called an entheogen. It engenders a thoughtful, meditative state without impairing reason and judgement. Unlike the heavy hallucinogens that are often labeled "entheogens", kava doesn't control and kava doesn't delude and kava doesn't seemingly do the work for you. It just sets the stage for productive introspection. I'd describe spiritual use as my primary use for kava, with recreational use as secondary. I'm offended by persons who see kava as just another psychoactive drug to get off on. Kava can be very enjoyable, but it's much more than that. This is the reason I don't try to correct the "information" presented in places like Erowid-- persons who fail to respect kava don't deserve to understand kava. I debated whether I should respond to your questions for much the same reason. But, I decided, you were beginning to look in one of the right places for information. And kava itself might create for you an opportunity to see the world more clearly.
Marcilla_Blutgrafin [red][font=Comic Sans MS] Wow! What a response. Thanks. I'm glad you "deemed me worthy" of such a response. Yeah, I actually know what you're talking about. I'm not so much into "entheogens" for purely entheogenic reasons as you are. My primary concern is psychotherapeutic purposes. For me, GBL was and is the perfect psychopharmacotherapeutic. Well, maybe not "perfect enough" or else I would still be with her (long story for a different forum). Anyway, I, like I think you, just don't connect with the "if I swallow this, will I get ****ed up" mentality. I have found psychedelics for example, not really to my liking, although to some, they are the most "entheogenic". Like you, I definately roll my eyes when someone describes my little Gina as a way to "get drunk". I was willing to spend a lot of time with her, learning what worked and didn't for me. Kava seems like she will take even more devotion, but that is ok. I'm not afraid of a little work. Anyway, you gave me a lot of good information, more than I expected, but certainly not more than I needed. I feel more prepared to do some exploration with Kava now as opposed to just "doing a hit". I do have a couple of questions. Why against alcohol? Don't get me wrong, I was glad to hear it is unneccessary, but is there harm in experimenting with the two used concurrently? Ok, so I'm going to try ordering the skinless Mo'i first. I like the description of it. Until I can receive my order, I think I'll give Kava King another try with my new found information. So for the Kava King, I should add to hot water and just stir, right? Does 2 TBS sound good to start out with? With maybe another 2 TBS in a second cup? I add ~.5 TBS granular lecithin to each. How much water do I use? For the Mo'i, I guess follow the same protocol only blend instead of just stirring, right? I'm glad you included the part about using the tincture at work, and thanks for the source reference. How would you prepare the tincture properly? Will I really never feel the effects if my tummy isn't empty? I like to eat small amounts throughout the day which never really leaves me with a time when it doesn't have a little something in it. What if I insufflated instead? (GOTCHA! That one is on Erowid as a question.[:o)]) Ok, I'm off to the store before they close. XXOO, G Wiz Ecce sponsa Satanus, Gina. Domino Inferi in medio ejus est. Fluminis impetus salsa laetificat vivos et mortuos. Domine Gina,torrente voluptatis Tuae potabuis eos. Quoniam apud te fons vitae; et in lumine tuo videbimus lumen. Qui stitit, veniat; et qui vult, accipiat aquam salsa. Ego vos benedictio in nomine Gina. AVE SATANUS! AVE PARAPHILIA! AVE NECROPHAGIA! AVE ENTHEOGENS!
muskie
quote:
Originally posted by Marcilla_Blutgrafin Why against alcohol? Don't get me wrong, I was glad to hear it is unneccessary, but is there harm in experimenting with the two used concurrently?
I don't know. But the strength and prevalence of the view that alcohol and kava don't mix is enough to give me pause, and should be enough to give others pause. I can always speculate as to why. One reason might be that kava is associated with native Pacific cultures, alcohol with missionary and colonial culture, and the prohibition is intended to emphasize the cultural purity of the kava experience. Another reason might be that in many ways the effects of alcohol are in conflict with the effects of kava (kava clears the mind; alcohol clouds it). Another reason might be that alcohol potentiates some of kava's less desirable effects, such as sedation and nausea. And yet another, far more dangerous, reason might be that alcohol brings out kava's putative liver damaging qualities. Unless I know why the traditional separation of drinking kava and drinking alcohol exists, I'd be very reluctant to ignore it.
quote:
Ok, so I'm going to try ordering the skinless Mo'i first. I like the description of it. Until I can receive my order, I think I'll give Kava King another try with my new found information. So for the Kava King, I should add to hot water and just stir, right? Does 2 TBS sound good to start out with? With maybe another 2 TBS in a second cup? I add ~.5 TBS granular lecithin to each. How much water do I use?
With Kava King, you just stir it into whatever liquid you prefer. No heat, lecithin, fancy mixing, etc., though I suppose it wouldn't hurt to see if heating the liquid helps. The official recipe, as I recall, is 1 TB per cup; friends who would use Kava King often used more (2-3 TB/cup). If you're not feeling meaningful effects from Kava King, that really suggests a big part of your problem is drinking kava on a full stomach. A friend of mine was a Kava King user for a while, and while she didn't in the end like the feel of the kava varieties used (it's a Tongan kava, and is more heavy and sedating than most Hawaiian awa), there was never any question that Kava King worked.
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For the Mo'i, I guess follow the same protocol only blend instead of just stirring, right?
Nope, not the same at all as the Kava King. If I was making the Moi, I'd start out by boiling the water I wanted to use. I'd put the amount of kava I intended to use in the bottom of the blender, add some lecithin (I don't use any special measurement for lecithin-- just whatever looks right), and then pour in the water. I'd whir that mix around for as long as I dared (lately, about 10 minutes). Then I'd filter it through a ladies nylon sock (which fits right over the top of my blender, facilitating pouring) into a bowl. Depending upon my mood, I'd use gloves and my hands to squeeze the kava through the sock, or I'd mash the tied sock with a potato masher, or I'd just wait until the kava was cool enough to squeeze out with my bare hands. If I was going to adulterate the taste of the kava by adding flavorings, I'd do that next. Then, depending upon my mood, I'd either chill the kava, or drink it, as-is, somewhat warm. Warmer kava seems to be absorbed better; cooler kava is more palatable. I usually use a ratio of two heaping tablespoons kava to one cup of liquid, but I will use as many as three and as few as one. I've never tried the skinless Moi, but I know that with the regular Moi, 3 TB/cup is a bit much for regular use, 2 TB/cup is suitable for the end of the day, when I'm not expecting to do anything especially important, and 1 TB/cup is more appropriate for when I expect to function afterwards (obviously all of this is contingent, also, upon how much one drinks of it).
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I'm glad you included the part about using the tincture at work, and thanks for the source reference. How would you prepare the tincture properly?
Eclectic Institute's Kava Nakamal is a capsule, of freeze-dried prepared kava drink. Of course tinctures can be made from kava and are effective, but generally speaking, you don't get the full effects of kava from the pills and tinctures. Still, they have a place. When I've used tinctures, I've put them in juice and drunk the juice. As I recall, grape juice would get cloudy when I added the kava. I wouldn't worry about the alcohol in alcohol-based tinctures; there's not enough of it, in my opinion, to be a concern. But if I wanted to use kava throughout the day, I'd try to see if I could prepare some traditional kava beverage and keep it in a thermos throughout the day. The difference between the kava root beverage and the extracts of various sorts is striking. The kava root beverage feels much more "whole", for lack of any better description.
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Will I really never feel the effects if my tummy isn't empty? I like to eat small amounts throughout the day which never really leaves me with a time when it doesn't have a little something in it.
The empty stomach thing is important. Unless I've been eating Thanksgiving dinner or something, two hours without eating will suffice. Though, I always notice a much stronger effect when I'm hungry enough for my stomach to be growling. Kava time, by tradition, is after work, and just before dinner.
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What if I insufflated instead? (GOTCHA! That one is on Erowid as a question.[:o)])
That's always been my favorite stupid question over on Erowid. I keep trying to picture how one would get several tablespoons of kava root up one's nose [:D] That, and I puzzle over how overly concerned everyone is over the debatable evidence for liver damage from kava, while, elsewhere, they enthusiastically discuss how to get high on cough syrup. But, getting back to the subject for the moment, at least some kavalactones are absorbed through mucus membranes. So one could feel the effects of kava by (traditional) chewing the root, or by (nontraditional) blending the root with peanut butter, putting it on crackers, and chewing well (it's the chewing, not the swallowing, that provides the bulk of the effect here), or, really, via any other way you can think of to get the active ingredients onto a mucus membrane. But there is a catch: in my experiments with this, I didn't get the usual full feeling of the kava. I suspect not everything can be absorbed through a mucus membrane, or, at least, that it's absorbed unequally. Although mucus membrane absorption seems to be very efficient, I'd just as soon drink it and get all of it.
throatgorge Hello, I too (like Carmilla there... I mean Marcilla) am a GHB refugee, and I have found profound intoxication from the admixture of kava-kava and Western civilization's oldest dope: ethanol. I don't have near enough money or leasure time to travel to the pacific, and if I did, I would spend it all on meth, crack, ghb, or weed. Point: I read something somewhere about beer and kava being a mixture used among a certain class of kava users in the pacific, mostly workers... personally, it knocks my socks off. I've seen recipe posts here that involve al-kee-hol, so I know I ain't alone. I either use black kava root from cielo botanicals or an 84% full spectrum extract from pureland eithnobotanicals. My first dose was in 1988 when I found some at wheatsville co-op in Austin-- not impressed. I have constantly bitched at everyone who tell me kava don't get them off that kava should be taken on an empty stomach. I once in a while noted that I could get pretty nicely buzzed-- sans alcohol-- by just chewing root. If I seem incoherant it is because I'm on a speed [8] crash, took 3 diphenhydramine tabs and some wierd anti-siezure medicine that I stole from some old guy to get to sleep, and downed a 500 mg pill made from the kava at pureland, chasing it with about 3 ounces of wild turkey. I like getting F'ed up. Kava + booze is 2nd after ghb in terms of my favorite highs, and if I win the pageant I want to feed all the hungry children in R'wanda. Show me how to get completely trashed on kava alone, and I will give it a schotz. Otherwise, I'm quite comfortable killing my liver slowly. In my opinion Kava comes closer to a ghb high than any other substance, and I find it perfectly good as an aphrodisiac too, but then again I am a femme. Great being wasted and making an ass of myself before you hippy ass kava drinkers. *** You never get a second chance to make a first impression![xx(][^]
throatgorge Hey Muskie, lay off erowid! They got great info on plenty of other narcotics, about half of which I have done some time ruther. If you REALLY want a laugh, load into the temple of the screaming electron where NUTMEG is advocated in some columns. As for cough syrup, I've enojyed it grealy throughout my life, but nutmeg is definatley a crap drug.
muskie
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Originally posted by throatgorge Great being wasted and making an ass of myself before you hippy ass kava drinkers.
That's geek-- "geek ass kava drinker". Or nerd, whichever you prefer [;)]
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You never get a second chance to make a first impression![xx(][^]
And that you most certainly have. -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT d(pu) s--:+++ a+ C++(++++) UL+(++++) P+(++) L++ E(+) W+++($) N+(++) o-- K w--- O? M? V PS+++@ PE-- Y+ PGP++ t 5 X-- R- tv(-) b++(++++) DI? D-- G !e h+(++) !r z? ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
gizmo
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Originally posted by muskie I take a great deal of mischevious delight in having been able to occasionally put a guest on the floor [:D] Not that I, uh, would have ever found myself in such a state as well, no, not me [;)]
That was on purpose? [:0] Next time I get over there... well, let's just say I'm thinking. [;)] You do make very strong kava, though, I will agree.
muskie
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Originally posted by gizmo That was on purpose? [:0]
Well, no, not on purpose. After all, having a guest on the floor is something of an inconvenience [:)]
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You do make very strong kava, though, I will agree.
However, having a guest on the floor is incontrovertable proof of this fact [:D]
gizmo
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Originally posted by muskie However, having a guest on the floor is incontrovertable proof of this fact [:D]
Not quite. Put a guest on the floor who is fully ambulatory to begin with and that will be incontrovertable.
muskie
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Originally posted by gizmo Not quite. Put a guest on the floor who is fully ambulatory to begin with and that will be incontrovertable.
But you know, I'm pretty sure that even if you were able-bodied, you'd have had mobility deficits after drinking my kava [;)]
sands of time
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Originally posted by muskie
quote:
Originally posted by gizmo Not quite. Put a guest on the floor who is fully ambulatory to begin with and that will be incontrovertable.
But you know, I'm pretty sure that even if you were able-bodied, you'd have had mobility deficits after drinking my kava [;)]
So how do you prepare your kava??? That sounds like a pretty harsh blend you got
caterquest I know what you mean. Kava does NOT work on me. Try blue lotus. It's smooth detachment. There's some good extracts on blueopium.com and more info on it on erowid.